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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Stop the raid on your CPF
I have to pick this issue up regularly to remind the Sinkies that the CPF savings are their money. No buts, not even legislation is allowed to take them away from you. I have read in many blogs and feel very embarrassed and shameful that Singaporeans are resigned to the fate that their CPF money is as good as gone, forever. Some meekly took the position that it is another form of tax. Please, do not allow that kind of mindset to let your money slip away. It is Ah Q mentality. When people slap you, try to rationalize it away as okay and meekly walk away pretending to be happy.
Just remember the obnoxious HDB housing policies, the wind down of the building programme despite the huge demand, the long wait, the runaway prices. If Sinkies have accepted them as given, can’t be helped, can’t do anything about it, these policies would still be in place and the Sinkies will still be taken for granted.
The same goes to their CPF money. Once Sinkies stop the fight, it will be the end of their money. The minimum sum will keep going up and up and away. If the Sinkies want the raiding of their CPF savings to stop, they have to start right now, together, to kpkb, to make sure that the govt heard you. All the money must be returned to their rightful owner by 65 at most. The senior citizens are not idiots or of unsound mind, not all. They can manage their money and know how to use them for their own benefits. After 65, any money to be left in the CPF must be voluntary. And the govt can explain all the good reasons why the Sinkies should keep putting their money in the CPF and to encourage them with positive incentives like higher interest rates or whatever perks. It must be done on a willing party basis, optional. Is there such a word called ‘optional’? I think many did not know of its existence. The only word they understand is compulsory. No one must be coerced by legislation to be parted with their hard earned money.
After 65, life can be terminated at any time. Let the people decide what they want to do with their money. The govt has no right to do that. Legislation is force, is crude and ugly.
The minimum sum in the Medisave is another issue that is intolerable. It is as good as paying your medical fees in advance, in the tune of $30k when one may not even need it. It is a farcical reasoning. Not everyone wants to spend his money on expensive hospital bills to be alive and have nothing left, and become stragglers or crawlers to pass their meaningless living in oblivion. It is pathetic.
The raid on the people’s CPF must be stopped. And only the Sinkies can stop them. Never give up on your blood sweat money. You earned it and it must be yours to spend, to do as you please unless God says otherwise. No human gods should think they are wiser and can assume the role of God. Anyone supporting such a policy, to deprive the people of their hard earned money without good intention, better be mindful of what you are doing. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Obama fighting for more money
He told the Americans that this is a tough battle. He needs money, and more money. And he has to fight Congress for it. No, he is not fighting for his own pay. If he does, I would recommend him the Singapore formula and the Singapore system. Just tell Congress that there is this wonderful model that works, and it pays the head of govt a basic of $3m with 27.5 months of variable bonuses as backup in case he performs well in his job.
He can then submit it to Congress to do all the cuts Congress wants. A 50% or 70% cut will still find him richer than the miserable $600k he is getting now. Unfortunately the American Congress is not so easy to deal with. There are opposition camps, there are also many checks and balances, above which, no one is allowed to write his own pay check or approve them.
My apologies, I digressed. Obama is fighting for more money for the American soldiers to conduct wars everywhere. As an American President, the top responsibility and the most important job is to conduct wars to feed the war industry and the soldiers. Nothing is more important than this. Not even fighting for his own pay rise. Anyway, his pay will only be decided by Congress and even if he admired the Singapore system and wanted it, he would not be able to do so.
It is a different culture. Asian culture is such that everyone is presumed to be corrupt. To be corrupt is in their blood. The only way to protect a guy from being corrupt is to legalise his payouts at whatever amount he thinks it will be needed to prevent him from being corrupt.
Can’t imagine Obama or any American President go in front of Congress or the American people and demand to be paid in millions to keep him from being corrupt. The Americans will laugh themselves to death before they could even put it to a vote. That is how strange their culture is. They don’t believe in corruption and will not pay for corruption. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Tin Pei Ling
I have abstained all this while from making reference to her directly with due respect to all parents, husbands and brothers and sisters of every young person. She is after all someone’s daughter, somebody’s wife and sister. It is not very kind to be so harsh in our comments on her. Many do not know her and made remarks based on the few things or comments they heard or read about her in the media.
She is just like any other young person, chasing her dreams, wanting to serve in her best capacity in her chosen endeavour. She has accepted the challenge to go into politics. Whether that is a right or wrong decision, it varies with individuals. If there is anything wrong with that, it must be the people who selected her and put her in the deep end.
Is she good enough for the job? The problem of Tin Pei Ling at the moment is more of PR and the image that the public perceived her. She is young and looked young, and that became a disadvantage. In politics, it is better to look matronly, with more girth and more meaty to look more substantive yah? Can she carry the responsibilities as a MP, to take care of her constituents, to discuss national issues in Parliament? Only time will tell.
When the perception of her is so wrong from the start, everything negative comes together to make things even worst for her. People are not happy that she is getting the huge MP allowance that was designed for super talent which people think is very excessive for someone that they think is still too young for it.
It is no longer about logic, about abilities, but about emotions and personal biases. And this is making life very tough for Tin Pei Ling. Every little movement from her will come up for criticism. I think this is grossly overdone. The rice has been cooked. If the people are unhappy, go after the people who cooked the rice. It was never her fault. She saw an opportunity, she seized it and thought she can do it. No one can fault her for this. For putting her on the high pedestal as another super talent, for thinking that she is good enough and that the people would embrace her, now looks like a bad judgement call from the people who made the decision to field her.
Tin Pei Ling is paying a very heavy price for the mistakes of others. She may blossom later and prove others wrong. For the moment, the public perception is that she is just not ready for political leadership. And the constant attack on her is not graceful and very unkind. Let’s be more graceful and let her have some peace and get on with life.
I say again. It was not her fault. She is just like any other young person starting out to work, to take the challenge in life. Let’s not make her life miserable and to pay for other people’s mistake. After the day is over, it may not be a mistake after all. No one knows better. People should refrain from attacking her at every opportunity. She did not create GRCs to get into politics. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Filling the ocean
This guy was at a public tap with a big hose and filling water into a big tanker. Standing beside him was a long queue of human beans each with a pail or plastic container waiting for their turns.
They have been waiting for hours but the tanker is so huge and may take several hours to fill it up. And several tankers were also waiting. Occasionally the guy at the tap would turn around and slosh a few seconds of water into a couple of empty pails and then turn back to fill the tanker.
Just for a few minutes, many of those in the queue would have their pails filled and can go home happily to continue with their lives. But because the tankers must be filled, probably owned by some big shot, the rest of the peasants would have to wait for their turns, and a little mercy from the dispenser.
The moral of this incident is similar to someone trying to fill the ocean that is full of water and ignores the little ponds, rivers and streams, leaving them high and dry. This is what is happening in countries that believe in pure meritocracy, when the more the merits, the more deserving one should be, and their bank accounts should be continuously be filled even when they have no time to spend the money. The lesser merit or undeserving ones can go on and be hungry. Randians? Wide income gap is natural and nothing can be done about it, so said the meritorious and deserving. Get out of my elite uncaring face.
This is the basic pillar of a pure meritocratic system, pure capitalism. This is the road we are marching on. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Construction workers on strike in Tampines
Construction workers, mainly foreign workers, went on strike in a site building HDB flats. The main complaint is that workers were not paid since October 2011 and employers only agreed to pay the October salary today and salary due in December by Friday. Now is February 2012 and there should be two more months salary accrued and due for payment.
These workers are already badly exploited by their agents before coming here, and are mostly in debt. And the employers and contractors should have a little decency not continue to exploit them by not paying their dues.
Regardless of all legal and contractual obligations, it is simply inhuman to exploit them this way. On moral and ethical grounds, the govt must step in immediately to end such exploitation of such workers.
It is terribly shameful for a first world country to bully illiterate and helpless workers from poor countries. Despicable is the word to describe such abuses of workers whose only purpose here is to work and earn a decent living. And they are being paid pittance, not millions.
Where is the human conscience and humanity? _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
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In the name of transparency and accountability
Please tell, how much it costs to build a HDB 2rm flat, 3 rm flat, 4 rm flat, 5rm flat and an EC flat. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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A reminder to nuclear infidelity
Yesterday was the anniversary of the Fukushima nuclear disaster. Channel News Asia devoted nearly the whole day of its programmes to remind everyone of this tragedy and how the Japanese are coping with it. Flirting with danger is a trait of daft human beans. Many have nothing better to do than to jump over high buildings for fun. Some tied a string on their legs and jumped over mountain cliffs or tall bridges. Cool. Anything that is flirtatious is tempting, a temptation that is simply exciting and nothing else.
While CNA was reminding the world of the nuclear disaster in Japan, is it also sending a signal to the flirtatious that flirting with nuclear disaster is a very dangerous thing to do and to be avoided at all costs? Is our flirtation with nuclear energy still on course as we plan ahead for a population of 10m or more? The wild ambition to grow our population to be richer and richer in economic numbers is one of the primary causes of this flirtation. We need not only nuclear energy but may other resources to sustain such a huge population, water, food, infrastructure, in fact everything, to feed the needs of a 10m population.
The good thing is that we will get there. We will build a nuclear power station that would not go wrong. Going wrong is not an option. But should there be a slight mishap like the Fukushima, the damage will be contained. The Jap’s incompetence screwed it up, we won’t. And if there is an explosion, the explosion will be small enough not to risk sinking the island. That we will make sure. What if the explosion is big enough? No worry, the design will make it blow out through the other side of the earth. The island will be made perfectly safe with a perfectly safe nuclear power station underneath. That is how good our nuclear fantasy can be.
The CNA memorial is only good for the converts who are now living in fear and dreaming of a nuclear disaster everyday. They are the fools. For the brilliant and super talented, nothing is beyond them. We will triumph with the best talents money can buy and the best technology that will not fail us. That is how good we are. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Goldsach Sach, the rot starts here
I was reading the revelation of financial rape by Greg Smith repeated in several of our main media today. Well at least they concurred that it is important enough to report it more than once. The editors must have their conscience pricked. Greg Smith was a top player in Goldman Sach, New York. He was so disgusted by the rot in the company that he called it quits. And he found it his moral duty to reveal the unethical practices of the company.
Any clients of Goldman Sach reading what he wrote would shudder at the risk they put themselves into, at the hands of their most trusted fund managers. What Greg Smith was saying is that there were no morals, no ethics, except make money, and from the clients against the clients’ interests. The strong culture and integrity of Goldman Sach, a company he once idolatised, has been transformed into a greedy bunch of white collar ruthless manipulators to satisfy their own greed. The clients’ interest is last on their list. Better, exploiting the ignorant clients is their forte and main business.
Among the few things that Greg Smith mentioned, selling products that the company had ‘axed’ to unsuspecting clients. Getting clients to trade or churn to bring in the most profits to Goldman Sach at their expense. And trading illiquid and opaque products.
The whole culture of trust, serving the clients and making decisions to help clients to improve their positions, making money for the clients, are thrown into the rubbish chute. It is profit for Goldman Sach and its traders that is of prime concern. And getting the most out of clients is the main reason for existence than making clients rich. Clients are referred to as muppets, to rip their eyeballs out and getting paid by getting clients to trade regardless of risk.
Is it surprising? Or is there anything new? This culture of greed and irresponsibility, unethical misconduct, is the wine that flows through Wall Streets and all the financial centres around the world. Govts too are caught up by this craze and greedily swim along. The greed of govts is no lesser than the greed of Wall Street financial cheats. They are sleeping partners of crime against the innocent investors who put all trust to these crooks they thought could be trusted and will ensure that the right things are done in the right way.
They believe morality is still a virgin. The truth is that morality has long been turned into a prostitute, sold into prostitution by the greed of these power brokers, the people they trusted most. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Real Estate/Monopolies 4 Ransom
http://vimeo.com/38500767
The above video clip is posted here by Political Beng. It tells of the problems that we are living with, and the problems that could destroy everyone of us except the minority real estate owners. And the real estate owners know where their interest lies and how to abuse the system to perpetuate their gains and perpetuate the misery of the ordinary citizens. It will get more difficult.
Though the clip is talking about Australia, it is applicable to us, every inch of it. All daft Sinkies and clever Sinkies who are making decisions to exploit daft Sinkies are highly recommended to view this video clip. It is a problem that is being created by those with vested interest in real estates.
All daft Sinkies should spend a little time to view this clip for their own good, to understand what is the problem that they failed to see. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Gemini Cheat Fund
Many of the older generations would remember the fame Gemini Chit Fund of the 1970s when depositors were promised high returns for their savings. Like all cheat funds, once an institution goes down the road of cheating, its days are numbered. No cheat funds can last for long.
The cheat funds operate on a very simple business formula. Get in as many depositors as possible like the Ponzi game. The fictitious payout can continue from getting more new depositors even if the investments of the collected money are not making good returns. Making lesser returns than the payout is making a loss. And some may wonder if the collected money were actually invested. There is no need to if more new money is flowing in. And in those days the cost of rental and payroll were minimal unlike today.
Cheat funds are limited in what they can do. If they can as they please, cheat funds can really go on in perpetuity as long as the conditions for more funds to flow in is non stopped. Cheat funds would be very pleased if they could keep on increasing their contributing members from 1m to 2m to 5m to 10m and ever increasing. This is the first part of the equation.
Cheat funds could also stop or delay their payouts by encouraging depositors to reinvest their profits ala bucket shop. One sound product is housing. Cheat funds can sell housing in short leases of 30 years or 60 years. The shorter the better as the money invested in these leases will eventually come to zero at the end of the lease even if the property prices could peak at several millions in between. There is an end game in property leases.
Other products that cheat funds can sell to their depositors include insurance for life and medical. In the case of life insurance, they must attempt to convince their customers that their lifespan is forever, or the longer the better. The trick is to keep the money in. And innocent laymen would love to hear that they can live forever, undead, and would need to park more money for their days of being undead.
Medical insurance is also a good product when medical bills are getting more expensive. The cheat funds could even set up their own hospitals and sell their own insurance. It is kind of ‘pau ka liau’ business. And the effect is the same. Every cent collected will be kept inside the vault.
Today, cheat funds could actually operate more effectively and efficiently with more products and schemes to entice and trap the depositors. It is a good and very profitable business as long as there is no run on the fund and the number of depositors keeps on increasing.
Time to revive the Gemini Cheat Fund and calling it any other name will do. A rose is a rose whatever you call it. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Spirit and intent equal nobility
24.(2A) In respect of any group representation constituency, no writ shall be issued under subsection (1) for an election to fill any vacancy unless all the Members for that constituency have vacated their seats in Parliament.
Uncle Yap posted in his blog on the legal provisions in our Constitution about holding of by election. The specific article of interest is posted above. I can understand why he is so furious with the provision. I too do not feel comfortable with it. And I believe every layman would be staring at it very hard, and very skeptical as to why the law is such. The immediate reaction is negative for sure. And no one can blame the lay people for their thoughts and reactions.
How can? What if kena langgar and 5 out of 6 or 4 out of 5 mati how? Superficially it would seem that a single MP would not be able to do justice to represent a whole GRC which by law is provided with 5 or 6 MPs to do the job. But the law is not something that is suka suka written by the unthinking lay people. The law is drafted carefully by very learned people and passed by very talented people in Parliament with good intention and the spirit of serving the people and country. It is meant to be good. The basic nature of the law is good. The law and the reason behind the law must be noble and with good intention. So how can this be seen so negatively?
I sat down and went into quiet contemplation and after several hours I was enlightened by the wisdom and beauty of the law. Now I understand why the lay people are called lay people, because they don’t have the wisdom and intellect to see beyond the tip of their nose. This law is very cleverly crafted to serve the interest of the people and not the leaders as some may think so. All the apprehension of flaws in this law is unfounded. If not, the talented and noble law makers would not have passed it.
Let me explain. The thinking behind this law is very far sighted and practical and has taken into consideration all the reservations and contingencies like 5 die and only one left to run the show. The first practical consideration is that you don’t suka suka hold by elections because someone got sack for a little indiscretion or someone wants to replace another one. Holding a by election is a very serious matter and involves a lot of people, logistics and money. So, unless very necessary like all the MP dies, one left standing should be good enough. Further, he can call on the support of other grassroot leaders to help out. So the people would not be deprived of being served by MPs. And not to forget, the MPs of today are so talented and full of energy that running around a GRC to serve the people on an OMO basis is a piece of cake. They don’t mind the sacrifice. And they are damn good at multi tasking.
But the truth is that it is unlikely that 4 out of 5 or 5 out of 6 MPs can kena langgar all at one time. The probability is so low that there is no need to worry about it. The reason and wisdom of the law maker cannot be doubted on this. For it to happen is more difficult than striking toto, or maybe once in 50 years. No, make it once in 500 years.
The people need not be unduly concerned about the law. It is very well thought out and the spirit and intent are definitely good and noble. You can have faith and confidence in the law makers for doing the right thing. If you don’t agree with my interpretation, please find a quiet corner to do some deep contemplation and you will see light at the end of the tunnel, and believe me. The law is as good as it can be. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Time to use the ISA
The reckless influx of foreigners into the country is showing its ugly and dangerous side. Singaporeans have been battered quite often by foreigners like a past time. The streets and fields are dirtier. More crimes are surfacing. The latest is a spate of reports in cyberspace about attempts to kidnap children. Finally these cases are reported in the main media today. Parents are told not to be alarmed as investigations are on going and police are treating these cases seriously. Police also advised parents to keep a close watch on their children and not to let them out of sight.
Prostituting to the world and the two casinos are going to bring along undesirable elements into the country and some are very difficult control. And the due process of the law can be tedious and at times difficult to deal with crimes or attempted crimes with the criminals or would be criminals allowed to go free to commit their criminal activities.
The ISA is not only for Singaporeans. It is time to use ISA on foreigners that are here to commit crimes and to beat up Singaporeans. If there are enough ground, even suspicion that are reasonable to the police, just deport them immediately. No need to waste the legal resources while risking the safety of the people. ISA is for internal security of the people and country.
The police should make an example of a few cases, blow them up as front page news as a clear warning that foreigners are not welcomed to commit crimes here, and definitely not allowed to beat up the locals. The punishment is immediate deportation. And this shall apply to PRs and new citizens as well.
We need to make this place safe as a first world country, an oasis in the third world. A list of deportable crimes should be published to keep the potential violators at bay. Those that have beaten up Singaporeans and are still here should be served a notice that they will be deported immediately if they repeat their offence.
And for those involved in the suspicious kidnapping attempts, deport them immediately. There is no need to be soft and sissy about it. They are dangerous and can inflicted pain and hurt in the most dreadful ways on their victims. Have no mercy. A little suspicion is good enough reasons to send them away. We don’t need this kind of foreign talents here.
We welcome all law abiding foreign talents and will treat them well. Criminals are a big NO. This must be the message. Foreigners must not get the wrong message that they can kick the asses of Singaporeans and get away with them. The message, this is Singapore and Singaporeans are the owners of this island. The foreigners are guests at our pleasure and must observe the law of the country. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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The injustice against our own citizens
There are still some Singaporeans questioning why PRs do not want to become citizens. The underlying assumption is that if PRs want to be citizens, we should quickly embrace them as citizens. This is a dangerous thought.
We do not need more citizens. We only need more heads to contribute to the economy and the CPF, just like we need more babies. PRs can remain as PRs and should remain as PRs. Citizenship must be closely guarded and issue only to deserving ones.
Many PRs chose not to be citizens for obvious reasons. And even having to serve NS is likely to be a waste of time and effort as their hearts are not here. Would they stay and defend this country in a war? The employment pass holders and work permit holders need not bother. There is no reason for them to die for this country.
Our citizenship comes with many privileges and should be as citizens should be treated thus. Citizens must be treated differently from PRs and others, and should not be disadvantaged. The privileges of citizenships are gradually returning to the citizens. A PR that turns citizens will immediately have a windfall. Buying HDB flats means savings of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars immediately and may profit more if they eventually sell out, and sell out the citizenship. Then there are all the ‘subsidies’ in education and medical benefits, and the national bonuses. To the lesser foreign talents, the reward is very substantial, enough to make them rich should they choose to return to their previous country after a few years.
The injustice done to Singaporean citizens is the denial by govt policies to buy a HDB flat, the biggest investment of any individual. Many citizens are deprived of this privilege while new citizens could benefit from it over night. How more silly can it be? This is the thoughtless policy that should be struck out immediately. The true blue citizens are still suffering from such a flawed policy and treated worst than new citizens.
Would the govt think that this is wrong and focus on doing the right thing, and remove this injustice against its very own citizens immediately? Or should the govt continue to do the wrong and claiming that it is right, to do the right thing? Maybe they are so talented that they could not see the wrong in this unjust policy. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Hoaxsters should be dealt with by the law
The rumours and alleged attempts to kidnap children have hit the main media today. Police have conducted their investigations and 5 people have been hauled up for spreading hoaxes about the kidnapping. Police confirmed that till do date no children have been kidnapped.
The ST reported 6 cases under investigations and two have been confirmed as hoaxes. The other four are still under investigations and police are calling for more information on the cases of alleged abductions. Those with information should contact the police directly.
In the meantime parents should still be very careful and keep a watchful eye on their children. Don’t let them out of sight. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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redbean
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 10088 Location: singapore
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:12 am Post subject: |
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The fearsome population numbers
We need a population growth of 25,000 to 30,000 immigrants a year to sustain our society and economy, so said the wise men. There is no better solution. This is probably another CBF solution that is the best and nothing but the best. No other mortals will be able to think of anything else out of this box, the box that all the super talents’ brains are boxed in.
If these new annual intakes, they are mostly adults, were to turn citizens and move into a single ward constituency like Hougang, what kind of impact it will have on the social and political balance of the ward? Hougang only has about 23,000 voters. At 25,000 to 30,000, there will be one Hougang equivalent of voters in the making every year. On the other hand, the babies being produced by the citizens would need another 21 years to come into stream.
Don’t pray pray with this kind of input. _________________ what i posted is just my personal view. feel free to disagree. |
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